Trust Issues (Indian Ringneck)

mehul93

mehul93

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I purchased an Indian Ringneck (6 months old) around 4 days ago and has been in its cage since. Whenever I try to get really close to the cage it starts to frantically fly side to side and also does the same when I try to change its feed.

It isn't tame so would like for it to gain some trust in me to at least go near the cage. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to go about starting off? I've read in other forums and saw someone say to not give it any attention and carry on with my day. I've also read other forums saying I should spend time sitting and reading etc next to it. So I'm now completely confused about what to do! My IRN seems to spend the majority of the time on the left-hand side of the cage, perched on the bowl. That is the side that is close to any activity in the room (TV, living area).

Should I change to a cage that allows me to change the bowls from outside? Or stick to the one I have, where I need to put my hand in the cage?

So if there is anyone that can help me and get me started on getting my IRN to trust me and to start taming I'm all ears and would greatly appreciate the advice!
 
Hi and welcome to the forum
you need the training section
and the threads you need to start with are

Reinforcers And Parrots Who Are Fearful Of Humans

Reinforcers and how to use them with a Parrot who is fearful of humans Building a history of Reinforcement from almost nothing We all have to start somewhere. A new parrot will have had no time yet to build a nice long history of reinforcement with us. Maybe that parrot is used to humans and...
theparrotclub.co.uk

Reinforcement, Reinforcers, And How To Identify And Use Them

Reinforcement, Reinforcers, and how to identify and use them Reinforcement If the outcome to a behaviour is desirable, then we will repeat that behaviour. That outcome or consequence to the behaviour is therefore said to be reinforcing. Positive Reinforcement As trainers we can engineer the...
theparrotclub.co.uk

And remember it's going to take time and patience to build a trust and forge the friendship your a predator species and he's a prey species so it's going to take a while until he thinks perhaps your trustworthy. It all has to be done in his learning timescale not your desired timescale :)
 
DizzyBlue said:
Hi and welcome to the forum
you need the training section
and the threads you need to start with are

Reinforcers And Parrots Who Are Fearful Of Humans

Reinforcers and how to use them with a Parrot who is fearful of humans Building a history of Reinforcement from almost nothing We all have to start somewhere. A new parrot will have had no time yet to build a nice long history of reinforcement with us. Maybe that parrot is used to humans and...
theparrotclub.co.uk

Reinforcement, Reinforcers, And How To Identify And Use Them

Reinforcement, Reinforcers, and how to identify and use them Reinforcement If the outcome to a behaviour is desirable, then we will repeat that behaviour. That outcome or consequence to the behaviour is therefore said to be reinforcing. Positive Reinforcement As trainers we can engineer the...
theparrotclub.co.uk

And remember it's going to take time and patience to build a trust and forge the friendship your a predator species and he's a prey species so it's going to take a while until he thinks perhaps your trustworthy. It all has to be done in his learning timescale not your desired timescale :)
Click to expand...

Hey @DizzyBlue, I literally just read them! Haha Very detailed and comprehensive, I've seen alot of posts from @Roz and @Michael Reynolds that have been an interesting read.

From what I am gathering my first baby steps would be to allow it to be comfortable with me around. I believe it was Aviary raised and the only interaction it had with humans was having its food put in or other people taking a look at it from outside the cage.

I've read on various other forums that I should first start of by going about my normal day to day activities and try not to spend too much time giving it my attention and definitely not looking directly at him. Would this be correct advice to follow?

I can happily sit about half a meter away from his cage and he is always perched up against the left hand side of the cage and I can see from the corner of my eye that he looks intrigued in what I'm doing (Working from home due to the pandemic!)

However when I read that forum the person said:

"I leave the bird in its cage for 2 weeks or so without paying any attention to it. I clean the cage, put fresh food and water and simply walk away and do my own thing. During those two weeks, the bird starts to relax because it sees that day after day after day, I do not even look at it (I do look at them but they don't see me doing it), it gets used to the right diet, I figure out what its high value item is and it gets used to the same exact routine every day"

Person then went on to say they would let open the cage after 2 weeks. This person seemed very knowledgeable not just on the taming of bird but everything down nutrition.

What would be the best thing to start off doing?
 
:welcome: mehul93! Congrats on your new addition!

mehul93 said:
"I leave the bird in its cage for 2 weeks or so without paying any attention to it. I clean the cage, put fresh food and water and simply walk away and do my own thing. During those two weeks, the bird starts to relax because it sees that day after day after day, I do not even look at it (I do look at them but they don't see me doing it), it gets used to the right diet, I figure out what its high value item is and it gets used to the same exact routine every day"
Click to expand...
I think that is pretty good advice. Let me go into some more details. It's a really great idea to get a routine going so that the bird knows what to expect each day. This will give him more confidence. No eye contact is excellent. I actually made no eye contact with my used-to-be untame Amazon, Ollie, for weeks, then I would gradually just snatch sideways glances at him. Reason being we, with our two eyes on the front of our heads are predators. A steady predator gaze at an prey animal like a parrot (eyes on the side of the head) can be read as I am stalking you and I'm going to eat you! What I ended up doing later with Ollie is blinking at him from afar - blinking means I am relaxed. All is well. It felt like a breakthrough when Ollie blinked back at me.

If he freaks when you get too close, try getting down on the ground. Parrots feel safer higher up where it is easier to spot predators - hence flying to curtain rails! In a cage, a parrot cannot get any higher, but you can get lower. When I used to clean Ollie out, I would kneel on the floor and make no eye contact - same went for changing food/water bowls. Keep movements smooth, never jerky.

Your aim right now is to do everything in your power to keep his body language relaxed. That way he will begin to pair your presence with the feeling of relaxation.

Absolutely keep him caged for a while whilst he relaxes into your routine. Notice how fast he comes to eat after you slot the food bowls in. You'll see him take less and less time as he gains confidence. And always walk away after slotting in the food bowls - you want him to get into the routine of eating as soon as possible. The food bowl = the cue for coming down to eat. This is so he is ready for the next stage...

When you think the routine is good and he's coming to eat out of the food bowls pretty quickly, you could think of letting him come out of the cage. Choose a day when you have plenty of time, just in case it doesn't go to plan. Then try opening the door an hour or so before breakfast, when he is hungriest (make sure you remove food at night - no parrot eats in the dark). You might want to add some perches on the outside of the cage or on the inside of the cage door, so that it is easy for him to climb out. Let him choose to come out - he may not want to and that is fine. If he does come out, that is great too. Go about everything as usual, then when it comes to slotting in his breakfast bowl, hopefully he should take himself into his cage of his own accord as he's is used to the breakfast bowl cue. That's what I did with Ollie - I didn't have to touch him. It became so predictable, I could let him out on a work day no problem.

Re the sitting by the cage reading. Only sit as close as is comfortable for the bird or it will achieve nothing. If his body language is relaxed at 2 meters but he freaks at you being 1.5 meters, sit 2 meters away to begin with. Gradually over days/weeks you can move the chair closer as he gets comfortable.

Cages with food bowls that are accessed from the outside are certainly less stressful for a fearful bird and safer for the human with an aggressive bird. See how you go first if you get down lower than the bird whilst putting the bowls in.
 
:welcome: from me too. All good advice given, hope things work out given plenty of time and patience.
 
Roz said:
:welcome: mehul93! Congrats on your new addition!


I think that is pretty good advice. Let me go into some more details. It's a really great idea to get a routine going so that the bird knows what to expect each day. This will give him more confidence. No eye contact is excellent. I actually made no eye contact with my used-to-be untame Amazon, Ollie, for weeks, then I would gradually just snatch sideways glances at him. Reason being we, with our two eyes on the front of our heads are predators. A steady predator gaze at an prey animal like a parrot (eyes on the side of the head) can be read as I am stalking you and I'm going to eat you! What I ended up doing later with Ollie is blinking at him from afar - blinking means I am relaxed. All is well. It felt like a breakthrough when Ollie blinked back at me.

If he freaks when you get too close, try getting down on the ground. Parrots feel safer higher up where it is easier to spot predators - hence flying to curtain rails! In a cage, a parrot cannot get any higher, but you can get lower. When I used to clean Ollie out, I would kneel on the floor and make no eye contact - same went for changing food/water bowls. Keep movements smooth, never jerky.

Your aim right now is to do everything in your power to keep his body language relaxed. That way he will begin to pair your presence with the feeling of relaxation.

Absolutely keep him caged for a while whilst he relaxes into your routine. Notice how fast he comes to eat after you slot the food bowls in. You'll see him take less and less time as he gains confidence. And always walk away after slotting in the food bowls - you want him to get into the routine of eating as soon as possible. The food bowl = the cue for coming down to eat. This is so he is ready for the next stage...

When you think the routine is good and he's coming to eat out of the food bowls pretty quickly, you could think of letting him come out of the cage. Choose a day when you have plenty of time, just in case it doesn't go to plan. Then try opening the door an hour or so before breakfast, when he is hungriest (make sure you remove food at night - no parrot eats in the dark). You might want to add some perches on the outside of the cage or on the inside of the cage door, so that it is easy for him to climb out. Let him choose to come out - he may not want to and that is fine. If he does come out, that is great too. Go about everything as usual, then when it comes to slotting in his breakfast bowl, hopefully he should take himself into his cage of his own accord as he's is used to the breakfast bowl cue. That's what I did with Ollie - I didn't have to touch him. It became so predictable, I could let him out on a work day no problem.

Re the sitting by the cage reading. Only sit as close as is comfortable for the bird or it will achieve nothing. If his body language is relaxed at 2 meters but he freaks at you being 1.5 meters, sit 2 meters away to begin with. Gradually over days/weeks you can move the chair closer as he gets comfortable.

Cages with food bowls that are accessed from the outside are certainly less stressful for a fearful bird and safer for the human with an aggressive bird. See how you go first if you get down lower than the bird whilst putting the bowls in.
Click to expand...

Hey Roz!

Perfect, my plan is to now let him be for atleast 2 weeks and monitor what he really likes to eat and his routine as you mentioned (coming to eat straight away) I've heard of feeding a wholegain mix which can be used to feed in the mornings as breakfast (50% cooked wholegrains, 50% vegetable) Would that be a good breakfast to get him going? I would then add a seed mix in the evening and remove the bowl.

I've just started to keep a small diary of what I'm feeding and will update it with what he has eaten and what he doesn't

I think the best option, in the long run, will be to get a cage that allows me to add food from outside I've seen a couple and was wondering which of these would be suitable?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yaheetech-...tech+Large+Metal+Parrot&qid=1605637104&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monumart-B...p/B07FJWJPVP/ref=psdc_471269031_t3_B01C5K475G

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yaheetech-...rge+bird&qid=1605637230&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-1


Just seen pictures of Ollie and he is one good looking bird! When you were cleaning his cage out kneeling did you find him to be uneasy and flying around in the cage? Were you also able to clean the top of the cage i.e the bars and where he would perch on the wooden rods? I don't think I'll be able to do any sort of cleaning other than changing the newspaper underneath!

Mehul
 
Roz said:
:welcome: mehul93! Congrats on your new addition!


I think that is pretty good advice. Let me go into some more details. It's a really great idea to get a routine going so that the bird knows what to expect each day. This will give him more confidence. No eye contact is excellent. I actually made no eye contact with my used-to-be untame Amazon, Ollie, for weeks, then I would gradually just snatch sideways glances at him. Reason being we, with our two eyes on the front of our heads are predators. A steady predator gaze at an prey animal like a parrot (eyes on the side of the head) can be read as I am stalking you and I'm going to eat you! What I ended up doing later with Ollie is blinking at him from afar - blinking means I am relaxed. All is well. It felt like a breakthrough when Ollie blinked back at me.

If he freaks when you get too close, try getting down on the ground. Parrots feel safer higher up where it is easier to spot predators - hence flying to curtain rails! In a cage, a parrot cannot get any higher, but you can get lower. When I used to clean Ollie out, I would kneel on the floor and make no eye contact - same went for changing food/water bowls. Keep movements smooth, never jerky.

Your aim right now is to do everything in your power to keep his body language relaxed. That way he will begin to pair your presence with the feeling of relaxation.

Absolutely keep him caged for a while whilst he relaxes into your routine. Notice how fast he comes to eat after you slot the food bowls in. You'll see him take less and less time as he gains confidence. And always walk away after slotting in the food bowls - you want him to get into the routine of eating as soon as possible. The food bowl = the cue for coming down to eat. This is so he is ready for the next stage...

When you think the routine is good and he's coming to eat out of the food bowls pretty quickly, you could think of letting him come out of the cage. Choose a day when you have plenty of time, just in case it doesn't go to plan. Then try opening the door an hour or so before breakfast, when he is hungriest (make sure you remove food at night - no parrot eats in the dark). You might want to add some perches on the outside of the cage or on the inside of the cage door, so that it is easy for him to climb out. Let him choose to come out - he may not want to and that is fine. If he does come out, that is great too. Go about everything as usual, then when it comes to slotting in his breakfast bowl, hopefully he should take himself into his cage of his own accord as he's is used to the breakfast bowl cue. That's what I did with Ollie - I didn't have to touch him. It became so predictable, I could let him out on a work day no problem.

Re the sitting by the cage reading. Only sit as close as is comfortable for the bird or it will achieve nothing. If his body language is relaxed at 2 meters but he freaks at you being 1.5 meters, sit 2 meters away to begin with. Gradually over days/weeks you can move the chair closer as he gets comfortable.

Cages with food bowls that are accessed from the outside are certainly less stressful for a fearful bird and safer for the human with an aggressive bird. See how you go first if you get down lower than the bird whilst putting the bowls in.
Click to expand...

@Roz Forgot to attach a picture but you can see from this one (It's blurry because it's from a security cam I've set up to check up on it haha) It's perched on the top left, and the white containers things you can see in the from the bottom are where I put its food and water. Think that is too low down? I used to have it on the top left where it is but to avoid putting my hand in from above I moved it there.

This morning I've added in fruit and veg, is it worth putting my seed mix in aswell?
 

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In my opinion I would offer seed mix too you do no not want him to go too hungry. Food & water must always be available 24/7.
 
Hi Mehul,
Just a quick reply for now. Re food, what was he already eating? It is better to stick to that and then slowly add more healthy things. Reason being not to make too many changes at once. Great if he’s already eating grains and veggies but he could starve if he doesn’t recognise them as food. If he’s only used to his seed mix I would leave it in all day.

I tend to slot in the fresh bowl first and then when they’ve had a munch, slot in the seed bowl, say half an hour later. I leave food in cages all day. Then I change the fresh bowl for another in the afternoon/evening.
 
Also cages - try to get a longer one rather than a tall one as the bird will tend to remain in the top half. Bar spacing is important too - too big and his head could get stuck. My Pionus’ cage has three quarters of an inch spacing. Not sure about the spacing for a Ringneck. Might be half - 3/4 of an inch. The bigger the cage the better as you will start to lose space inside when you add toys.

The last two don’t have swing out feeder doors as they are for smaller birds. Also have a look at Scarlett’s Parrot Essentials and Northern Parrots for more choice.
 
Just clean what you can at the beginning. I managed to do the papers and some bars. Then was able to include the perches later. Go slowly. Thank you for the lovely words about Ollie. 😊
 
I think it is a good compromise to have the bowls where they are for minimal intrusion into his cage. Also it will give him a little exercise to come down for his food rather than sitting on the same perch for two or so weeks.
 
Roz said:
Hi Mehul,
Just a quick reply for now. Re food, what was he already eating? It is better to stick to that and then slowly add more healthy things. Reason being not to make too many changes at once. Great if he’s already eating grains and veggies but he could starve if he doesn’t recognise them as food. If he’s only used to his seed mix I would leave it in all day.

I tend to slot in the fresh bowl first and then when they’ve had a munch, slot in the seed bowl, say half an hour later. I leave food in cages all day. Then I change the fresh bowl for another in the afternoon/evening.
Click to expand...

Ok cool! He was on a seed mix primarily. I actually stuffed sunflower seeds in pieces of banana to get him to eat them as well haha. I'll go slot in his regular seed mix now, he still hasn't gone down to eat. wondering whether it is because the position of those bowls is now at the bottom rather than on the top.

The last flight cage seems to have spring-loaded sections to put bowls in, but will take a look around on those 2 sites aswell!
 
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Roz said:
I think it is a good compromise to have the bowls where they are for minimal intrusion into his cage. Also, it will give him a little exercise to come down for his food rather than sitting on the same perch for two or so weeks.
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Will he naturally go down once he is hungry even though it is in a different place or will he be stubborn and still wait up at the top? Trying to understand the behavior of IRN's as a whole rather than just him haha

UPDATE: I was just about to go add in the seeds and I saw him go down. will leave him for another 15mins or so and then go add seeds in.
 

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if he had a ring neck I think it would be from his other half strangling him as he had spent too much time on his train Ha Ha @Yellowchickenparrot , ok getting a wild bird to gain trust in the case of a ringneck can take time and I have found that if it has not got used to you going near to him/her while in the cage then find a room that is not large and place a chair in their, let your bird out in the room while you are sitting down either reading or using the computer and ignoring your bird, have a piece of apple and place it in a position near you . as the bird takes the apple then place it slowly closer to yourself. I do use my bathroom in this type of situation as there is not many places the bird can land with out being reasonably close. the main thing is that your bird will learn you are not a threat and normal training can be done after
 
Michael Reynolds said:
if he had a ring neck I think it would be from his other half strangling him as he had spent too much time on his train Ha Ha @Yellowchickenparrot , ok getting a wild bird to gain trust in the case of a ringneck can take time and I have found that if it has not got used to you going near to him/her while in the cage then find a room that is not large and place a chair in their, let your bird out in the room while you are sitting down either reading or using the computer and ignoring your bird, have a piece of apple and place it in a position near you . as the bird takes the apple then place it slowly closer to yourself. I do use my bathroom in this type of situation as there is not many places the bird can land with out being reasonably close. the main thing is that your bird will learn you are not a threat and normal training can be done after
Click to expand...

Do you think it is worth me trying this after a couple of weeks and seeing if that changes anything? Also, how would I get him out into a smaller room? Wheel the cage over? Also how would I get him back in if he doesn't seem to go back?
 
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