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Telling Your Parrot "no"

Discussion in 'Training' started by Heather2131, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Heather2131

    Heather2131 Regular Member

    Is it okay to tell Archie "No" and "Off"

    He often flies on to shelves with delicate sentimental ornaments on and he knows he shouldn't, he normally waits for me to get up before flying off them, but if left long enough he'd push them all off

    More often than not he responds to "No" and "Archie Off"
    Sometimes he ignores me completely

    Is it okay to say "No" or is there a better way to keep them off shelves?
  2. sunnyring

    sunnyring Regular Member

    I say no to Sophie if she is after something breakable. never seems distressed at it, usually moves away from the item without any drama
  3. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Hmmmmm often I can say no and my lot just ignore me!! :thinking:
    Actually not entirely true Tuppy likes swinging on the light fittings and before I can say no to her she looks at me and says No that's naughty and flies off watching me watching her and then shouts Ha Ha Haaaaaarrrrr .... I think my lot are taking the Micky out of me most days ..... :BangHead:

    Need Amelia's clicker boot camp or to just ship them over to Roz for lessons on not taking the Micky out of their slave! :biggrin:
  4. dianaT

    dianaT Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Well I do say Ahh Ahh Ahh Nooo and if often - well sometimes works.
  5. Shirley

    Shirley Regular Member

    Hi Heather2131 i tell Scooby no but like Tash says they ignore you and look at you as if to say make me rofl .I also tell Scooby no beeky and he fully understands this but don't forget Parrots are like toddlers and do as they like anyway pmsl

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
  6. Heather2131

    Heather2131 Regular Member

    I'm pleased you all say no too haha I wasn't sure if it was wrong to do that
  7. Bradders

    Bradders Parrot Power! Staff Member Moderator

    We say no, Ruby says no. But like the rest of the parrot forum flock, she ignores us too. In fact, she'll stand and stare at you, wings ready, from the forbidden 'perch' in a stance as if to say 'don't want me here, come and get me then'. You go to stand up, she waits, then you get just within step up distance and she's off.

    But I have a solution folks, you just put something scary where you don't want them to go. Ruby hates rope perches with a passion. So there's one dangling over the TV and one over the living room door! Problem solved.... for now!
    sunnyring and Shirley like this.
  8. Heather2131

    Heather2131 Regular Member

    Archies not scared of many things and if he is he quickly gets over the fear

    Apart from the air purifier... that's still a parrot eating monster, but I can't get that on the shelf haha
    Bradders likes this.
  9. Bradders

    Bradders Parrot Power! Staff Member Moderator

    You've got a very smart one there then. Don't let him give Ruby tips!
  10. Setanta

    Setanta Regular Member

    The more you make the event dramatic, the more rewards he gets and he will repeat the beheaviour for the dramatic pay off.
    Remove the cause of the drama. Put away your ornaments
    Roz likes this.
  11. Setanta

    Setanta Regular Member

    The only way to keep them off your favourite shelf is to give them another EVEN HIGHER shelf, which has acceptable toys for them pre installed
    Roz, Bradders and sunnyring like this.
  12. Shirley

    Shirley Regular Member

    That sounds a grate idea Setanta but you know as well as i do they want what they can not have rofl

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    Roz, Setanta, Bradders and 1 other person like this.
  13. Setanta

    Setanta Regular Member

    Im an IT Consultant at a major bank. I write the programs
    One day when I ranted at my boss for half an hour about a stupid user who was making loads of mistakes in the program, he calmly said to me
    " Why did you make it possible for them to F*ck up the program"?

    Why did you make it possible for the baby caique to destroy your precious ornaments?
    TomsMum and Roz like this.
  14. Roz

    Roz Regular Member

    Lol! You're so funny but that's very true @Setanta !

    You can say "no", Heather, but will Archie understand? He might understand the human's body language that accompanies the "no" but why would you want to pair yourself with an aversive? If the parrot stops for a while then the behaviour has been punished (in behavioural terms). On the other hand the attention could be positively reinforcing and the parrot continues to engage in the unwanted behaviour. The trouble with punishment is that is it is not teaching the parrot anything. The parrot learns not to fly to the shelf when you can see him, but as soon as your back is turned he's back on the shelf. The unwanted behaviour is still there. Bit like a dog who isn't allowed on the bed when the human is in the house, but makes a bee line for the bed when the owner goes out.

    You could use a word like "no" as a brief distraction and then immediately reinforce another more acceptable behaviour. But since being on the shelf is so highly reinforcing, it would be more effective to cue and hugely reinforce another behaviour before he flies to the shelf.

    Otherwise, it would be easiest to change the antecedent and take the ornaments down as Setanta suggested (you could get a glass cabinet for them). You could try ramping up enrichment elsewhere to divert his attention and keep him occupied, but I think being on the shelf has become very reinforcing for him!
    TomsMum and Setanta like this.
  15. Heather2131

    Heather2131 Regular Member

    Thanks @Roz
    That's what I was trying to ask, am I negatively reinforcing it by saying no and getting up and lifting him off
    He doesn't want lifted off so I don't think he does it so that I will go to him (if that makes sense)

    A lot of the time he listens to no, he'll go for something and I'll say "no no" in a low voice and he listens and walks away from it

    The problem with the shelves is he likes to throw things off and see them smash and make a loud noise on the floor, I could allow this by putting toys on top of his cage to throw off, he loves the really loud bang on the wood flooring.

    It's not my house you see, we've considered a glass cabinet but it's only one room of the house he can get up to mischief in
    My bedroom where he spends most of his time out is basically his play ground, not much in here is breakable and if it does break oh well!
    But when it's my mams stuff and it's very sentimental and delicate then that's another story

    Just wondering about the whole "no" thing but you've answered my question
    I'll try and keep him more stimulated when he's out so he doesn't even give the shelves a thought

    It's difficult though as when he's out everything's so fun and new to explore, he can play with his toys anytime so why play with them when there's some lovely shelves to hop up and down on and delicate ornaments to throw off! Haha
  16. Roz

    Roz Regular Member

    Sorry Heather - I didn't see your response until now.

    We know being on the shelf and throwing things to the floor are reinforcing because the behaviour is repeated... again and again. It is most likely intrinsic reinforcement (coming from within/to do with the senses - sight, sound, taste etc.) plus being on the shelf could also be reinforced by you (attention).

    You get up and lift Archie off the shelf. You say that he doesn't want to be lifted off the shelf but you still manage to do so. If you are introducing an aversive in order to make him step up which is then removed after he steps up, then that is using negative reinforcement, which is also known as escape/avoidance learning. For example pushing your hand into his chest to make him step up. The sensation of the hand being pushed into his chest is an aversive which is removed after he steps up.

    I've been through this with Kobe who used to throw all my CDs cases onto the hard floor - like Archie he loved hearing and watching them smash. It became even more reinforcing when I gave him attention for it. At first I got him to fly to me by waving a rattle foot toy, but ultimately it was more reinforcing to go back to the CDs. In the end I put the CDs away in the cabinet where they should have been in the first place! :D

    Tonight I noticed myself raising my voice to Ollie "NO!" when he started shouting at 1am (poor neighbours!). He immediately shut up. So I know that was punishing to him. My "NO!" was an aversive and he was slightly wary of me for a few minutes after (a typical fall out from using an aversive). I felt really bad and so positively reinforced some more acceptable behaviours. I also know that my "NO!" didn't teach him what to do instead of shout... I am hoping it was a one off but will be vigilant around the same time tomorrow and reinforce some other behaviours before he even thinks of shouting.
    Heather2131 and TomsMum like this.
  17. Heather2131

    Heather2131 Regular Member

    Thanks for explaining Roz