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Some Discussions About Kissing Your Bird And Saliva Hazards

Discussion in 'Health' started by DizzyBlue, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Humans have streptococcus in their saliva ... YUCK!
    Bacterial wise between 500 and 650 different species in our mouths ...... :emoji_mask: hmmm makes you wonder if you really want to kiss another human and defo don't want to be sharing them with other species we treasure.
     
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  2. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Then again if you didn't have your bird disease tested would you know if it had psittacosis? Which is transmittable from bird to human ..... o_O a two way street ...... hmmmmm
     
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  3. Michael Reynolds

    Michael Reynolds Regular Member

    I just wonder how many birds have became ill through human by being kissed. is there a figure kept? I have not known of any case myself and I have openly kissed many of my flock. Don't get me wrong I am not saying it is ok and 100 per cent safe yes there are many germs and bacteria's around and not just in the mouth of a human and most are harmless and in fact most are good to have to keep us healthy. We can never make anything fully safe but can keep most at bay by cleaning and storing properly. the fact with humans these days is things are too clean and many now suffer when coming across germs that there bodies are not used too. Birds will go for the mouth to show affection and trust as this is a natural thing for them to do either with there human friends or another bird. germs are carried on hands even if you wash them regularly. If you touch any thing even your clothing germs will start to build. We all do our best to keep things hygienic but also have a responsibility for the welfare of our flock members and not only there health but also there mental state. Unfortunately humans have taken them from there natural homes and brought them into homes. they need to fill wanted and loved either by other birds or by there humans a lonely bird will be more prone to illness and have less of a reason to fight against such a problem. I must point out the dangers of allowing bird near your face. I take on birds that have attacked and with my ways of training them and learning each birds ways and tempers I have allowed all but one to come on my shoulder and show there affection.
     
  4. TomsMum

    TomsMum Administrator Staff Member Admin

    OoooooOOOoooo and gram negative bacteria - which mammalian species host...which parrots do not. If you did a search you would find many quoted cases not only in scientific papers, but posted on other Avian forums worldwide where birds have diesd as a result of infection from the bacteria in mammalian saliva.

    We can use surface protectants such as F10 - which is also produced in hand soap and hand gel form as used in many veterinary practices - such products are designed to help protect against various viruses and gram negative and gram positive bacterial infections.

    We advocate best practice in this forum, we advise not to have your bird on your shoulder, unless and until you can be assured of an immediate and consistent step up when commanded.

    This post was specifically aimed to advise on the risks to parrots of contact with human and other mammalian saliva.

    Humans and birds can as you put it "show their affection" for one another, without resorting to risky interactions such as letting the bird access your mouth...and that is a fact.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2017
  5. Kendra

    Kendra Regular Member

    Gram-negative bacteria are bacteria that do not retain the crystal violet dye in the Gram stain protocol, just because a bacterium is gram negative does not necessarily mean it is harmful. Kissing can easily pass our germs on other organisms therefore be on the safe side never exchange bodily fluids.

    Dogs have less harmful bacteria in their mouths than we do.
     
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  6. TomsMum

    TomsMum Administrator Staff Member Admin

    As explained above and where I gave specific examples of gram negative bacteria.....these types of bacteria are hosted in mammals and we develop resistance to them as long as they are at controlled levels....if they increase beyond the levels that our immune system can cope with ...then we become poorly e.g sickness from salmonella.
    Gram negative bacteria types are an issue to parrots, because they are not usually carried in their system - that is why they are a greater risk to our parrots than gram positive bacteria types.
     
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  7. dianaT

    dianaT Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    I have to say it's something I never do . It has been well known for years (and I've kept parrots for over 35 + years) that chlamydia, psittacosis and other diseases can be passed on via mouth contact. If you are going to do it please be aware you are putting yourself and your parrot at risk.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  8. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Lets face it humans are just pretty grotty creatures when under the microscope :rolleyes: any way why risk those most precious feathered beauties just because we think or want to do something .... not worth the risk :nut:

    Not sure how anybody would be able to keep a score / tally on the number of birds getting gram negative bacteria from human saliva to prove a point though .... the bugs we carry are also elsewhere so to be able to say passed on via this or that you would have to know exactly all sources obtainable by the bird .... this practice of not doing it just make sure we are removing another possible source :) Plus not all humans carry exactly the very same strain of bugs as each other some have slight variations. I would expect the salmonella presence levels in say a vegetarian to be less than in a species that ate meat or indeed were a vegan but would this be relevant to impact as the host would have perhaps to be slightly compromised in their health values (or not!) to say catch it? Thought process continues on that level since birds as we well know do hide their illness exceptionally well being a link back to in the wild show weakness and get eaten.

    We humans are after all predators by natures design and parrots are after all prey species so both evolved by nature to stand on opposite sides of the bench.

    As the years progress and our wish to study and learn progress' so does hopefully our understanding of those within our care, their needs and care and what we should and shouldn't provide them with access too etc. We are after all far more advanced in their care than say the Victorians were (or so I would hope!) science and things like the internet to pass along newly discovered information should be utilised to our advantage to improve our birds care. We make the mistakes and it's the birds within our care that actually pay the ultimate price for our errors of judgement.

    One of my greatest fears is advocating something that actually puts a bird in harms way rather than removes the harm. I for one do not want the death of somebody else bird praying on my mind forever it's bad enough having those that I have had and that have gone to rainbow bridge on it. The could have I done more, should I have tried harder, should I have done x y and z or perhaps a b and c?

    We all have read the zoonotics which are diseases transmissible from humans to animals and vice versa .... below are links to just the UK known zoonotics other countries have additional ones when the weather is more hot and humid etc.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/list-of-zoonotic-diseases/list-of-zoonotic-diseases
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/zoonotic-diseases-zoonoses-guidance-data-and-analysis
    http://www.hse.gov.uk/biosafety/diseases/zoonoses.htm

    We have also caused devastation over the years to all sorts of places, animals and even other humans by carrying things we didn't know about and transmitting them to species that had never been exposed to them before.

    http://www.pethealth.com.au/Page/psittacosis-love-birds-but-dont-kiss-them
    http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/topten.html (I do disagree with the unclipped wings one though!)
    http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/ecoli.html
    https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uplo...parrots-through-avoiding-everyday-hazards.pdf
    http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/understanding-your-parrot/
    https://www.exoticdirect.co.uk/news/caring-parrot-an-owners-guide

    Surely to protect our feathered beauties from such things should be our ultimate goal, first duty of care to those within our care? To advocate good practice to help other to grow in their knowledge and become good parrot slaves a better aim than thinking yeah but this is fun and stuff the science I have never had an issue so it must be ok .... mustn't it? I would far more rather stand on the side of caution and advocate good practice than guide somebody in to a blind ally that would risk a bird and stand there and know they just copied my foolishness and the bird died because indirectly of me ...the owner just doing what I did.

    Feck I wrote a book again!! :copas:
     
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  9. JessCheekyMia

    JessCheekyMia Regular Member

    I have to be honest, when I got Cheeky my very first bird of my own I used to allow him to kiss me and he used to try and get in my mouth whilst I was eating. So I put seed in between my lips and he took the seed from me. Then I read that human salvia was bad for parrots I didn't know why but I do now thanks @TomsMum, So I stopped. I miss giving kisses and him feeding from me , however I would miss him more if he was to become ill and pass away because of me being selfish. Don't kill them with kindness x
     
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  10. TomsMum

    TomsMum Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  11. JessCheekyMia

    JessCheekyMia Regular Member

  12. Lisa7284

    Lisa7284 Regular Member

    :emoji_raising_hand: My name is Lisa and I am a guilty parrot kisser...not the wet slobbery kind but definitely a quick peck. Maybe Alfie needs to write a book 'The 101 different ways my parrot slave unwittingly tried to kill me.'
     
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  13. Michael Reynolds

    Michael Reynolds Regular Member

    I new my reply would spark a feeling and replies from you all that's why I wrote it as I like to spark a discussion. I posted a Photo of my Beryl in my mouth that was taken over four years ago and I will admit I used to kiss birds and allow them to kiss me and feed me but I do not now well not to the mouth. Beryl was a special bird and there was reasons that the training had to include the ultimate trust situations. I will say she was regally tested( every three months or less if I had concerns) with full bloods as being in contact with many people and other birds her health was taken seriously. Beryl was used to get people over there fears of birds and trained to accept all humans young to old and male or female and disabled. I had to be able to trust him fully in all situations and with every one he met. I still kiss my birds but not to the mouth. Now apart from Holly whom is in need of human contact and dislikes the other flock members each of my flock know they are birds. the hardest bird to stop from trying to feed me was each of the sennies but know they feed my fingers instead. Well birds will try to feed you and have sex with you if you allow it and yes it is natural for them to do so but it is up to us to train this behaviour out of them. Having birds on the shoulder is a different topic and one I do not agree with but will do a subject on that later.
     
  14. dianaT

    dianaT Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Thank you for explaining that Michael, it did as you saw, cause discussion.
    Birds on shoulders another good subject. I do not allow my Amazon on mine since he bit through my ear lobe many years ago, also many people receive facial injuries too, although I would guess most parrots do ride around on shoulders. Including one of my Senegals.
     
  15. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

  16. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

    None of us are perfect and I regularly have an ammie on my shoulder and a grey parked on my head! However there are things we need to know before we do something and something bad happens and we turn around and say ... oh I didn't know that wish somebody had told me..... closing the stable door after the horse has bolted so to speak.
    I like to bury my nose in to the back of Alfie the Ammies neck and sniff that lovely ammie aroma ...... my way of giving lovies with him no snoggies but snuggly lovies instead.
     
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  17. TomsMum

    TomsMum Administrator Staff Member Admin

    discussion separated from my information post about the health risks of saliva - the discussion was detracting from the fact -
    MIchael if you don't do the bird in mouth thing now, why did you try to post the photo I removed twice the other day?
     
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  18. JessCheekyMia

    JessCheekyMia Regular Member

    I have a lot of medication and I always worry if I kiss them and they could get traces of it in my saliva. I don't know if they can but I won't do it just in case. That was another reason I stopped kissing Cheeky (my first bird). But I have learnt a lot since having him.
     
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  19. Lisa7284

    Lisa7284 Regular Member

    Score 1 for me, as a vegetarian I am reducing a risk for Alfie..... now just to tackle the 100 other ones :watchout:

    I have to say Alfie is more at risk on my shoulder than I am. The amount of times he has found himself hanging upside down shouting 'ouch' whilst getting himself caught in my curls :nut: As for the immediate step up.....um well we didn't know there was such a thing as a 'step up' when we met so we have a 'come on.' You may need to explain immediate to Alfie @TomsMum it doesn't seem to be a word in his vocabulary or his ethos on life. Now bribery he understands :biggrin:

    All joking apart I have to agree with the shoulder thing- it's one of those 'just because I do it doesn't mean I would recommend it.'
     
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