i need help

michelleshepelevich

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btw, some good newss-
1) Ranji really likes to listen to music with me and when i sing he sings with me! :heart1:
2) He began to react more calmly to my moves
3) im happy that he is trying to be silence while i have my online classes.
4) looks like he doesnt really like my flute, but again - thats music:budgie:
 

michelleshepelevich

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Hey everyone! long time no see. :budgie:
Nothing really changed since the last time ive tipped here. Ranji is fine and he started come to my hend by himself. but yet, hes really nervous around me and every time i get him out of his cage (he doesnt resist while im taking him) after some time he tries to escape from me. and he always making sure where am i and takes a few steps away when im calling his name.
 

Michael Reynolds

Regular Member
you need to step back a bit and I will call @Roz to explain why your bird is the way it is as she is better at explaining than me, she will guide you to get your bird to trust you and want to be with you and how your bird fills it is being forced on to your hand, its so nice to hear from you.
 

michelleshepelevich

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How is it going in your country? our minister of Health is sick now too and the whole country is close until April or even more..
im getting sick of sitting home all day and hope itill and soon
 

Michael Reynolds

Regular Member
now on the 11th day of lockdown, it can be restricting, lost two friends so far now known because of the virus. hitting home a bit but the hardest thing is being unable to show respect for them, unfortunately a lot more will pass away before the numbers will start to dwindle, please stay safe
 

Roz

Regular Member
Hi Michelle, thanks for the tag, Michael.

Each time you force Ranji to do something he is not comfortable with, you are pairing yourself and your hands with an aversive (something the bird doesn't like) which is destroying the trust you are so carefully building with him.

... every time i get him out of his cage (he doesnt resist while im taking him) after some time he tries to escape from me
We know he is not comfortable because he tries to escape from you. He may not resist while you are taking him out because he has no option (learned helplessness). A more aggressive/confident bird might resort to biting in these circumstances. Instead, let him choose to come to you and your hands because you instead pair them with something good... like treats etc. Can you just open the door and let him climb out himself? That way he has choice... choice is an important reinforcer. That's great that he is choosing to come to your hand himself.... ask yourself what is the reinforcer for this? A yummy piece of food? Maybe he is curious? How can you make coming to your hand more reinforcing to him?
 

michelleshepelevich

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Hi roz.
the top of his cage is always open and he came walk around it as he please..
Ive tried to find more treats he would like instant of apples and even that he would not like to have of my hands
 

Roz

Regular Member
That's great! Just be patient.

Work on getting him comfortable around your hands and work on having him take favourite foods from you.

In the future, when he finds it reinforcing to step up on your hand (for whatever reason), you can train duration (the increasing amount of time he is sitting on your hand). Always let him get off before he even looks uncomfortable. Later still, you can train his sitting on your hand as you begin to move it (a moving hand is very different from one that is still) for increasing distances - a few inches at first and back again... again letting him get off before he shows body language that says he is uncomfortable.

It takes a lot of time, but worth it in the end to have a bird who comes to you because he wants to - this way you gain complete trust.
 

michelleshepelevich

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Long time no see, guys! I hope everybody are ok and having a great time with their parrots at home.
I gotta say that nothing really got butter with Ranji.. He is pretty calm most of the time but he still reacts really nervously when in walking by.
My mom doesn't make the situation easier.. she wants him to get on her hand every time even if i try really hard to stop her. he is singing and running around his cage and sometimes jumps off it but immoderately tries to get back up..
At this point Im starting to give up.. it doesn't look like he will ever have a good friendship with me..
 

Michael Reynolds

Regular Member
sometimes you may have to step back and think what is causing your bird not gaining full trust, with all birds its not a case of gaining trust but more not loosing trust it sound like your mother may be forcing your bird to step up, I will get our lovely @Roz to guide you and let hope your bird can get back on track. its good to have an update
 

Roz

Regular Member
To gain trust you (and your mom) need to pair yourselves with good experiences for Ranji. Each time you pair yourself with an aversive (something he doesn't like) you are eroding all the trust you are so carefully building at other times. Your mom trying to get him to step up is an aversive. We know it is an aversive because Ranji immediately tries to get away.... it is escape/avoidance behaviour. If you can't stop your mom doing this, then I would leave the room so that Ranji doesn't pair you with the aversive too.

I wonder if you could get your mom working with you. Your goal right now is to do all you can to keep Ranji's body language relaxed... it might mean keeping a certain distance from him for now (apart from feeding and cleaning), it might mean getting down low (when feeding and cleaning), it might mean avoiding eye contact, it might mean doing silly things like singing and dancing on the other side of the room. If he is relaxed, then he will start pairing you both with that lovely relaxed feeling. BUT as soon as you introduce an aversive, that trust will disappear again.

With a bird that has a long history of positive reinforcement/good experiences with you, if you accidentally introduce an aversive, that bird will bounce back fast. With a new/untame bird which of course, hasn't got much history of good experiences/positive reinforcement, introducing an aversive means a HUGE loss of trust.... it takes a LONG time to build up that trust again.

For example, just over two weeks after Ollie my untame Amazon came to live with me, I had to towel him. All the trust I had painstakingly built up for those two weeks went out the window. He was back to being terrified of me. I had to start again, slowly and patiently gaining his trust again.
 

michelleshepelevich

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whats up everyone? how ya doin'? :singing-penguin:
Everything is still the same with Ranji, its not improving but not getting worst neither.I managed some how to explain my mom that i need some time until Ranji will feel like a family member and some time shes getting mad about this because she thought that if im buying a "hand feed" bird till get used to us immediately, but she agreed to leave him alone for some time.
I gotta say that im always trying really hard to improve his life. im cleaning his cage once at a two or three weeks, every day changes his food and water and making sure he always have apples that he likes so much. But today, while i was cleaning i wanted to put him on a music stand as I usually do and he bite me.. i came to him really carefully and used a calming voice and after some time he agreed to get on my hand so i could put him back at his cage.
I haven't touched him for a long time and sometimes having conversations with him, im busy most of the time because of school and work . I hope that this bite will never happen again..
 

dianaT

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Well done for taking your time. That is something all of us have been and that is bitten - some more than others but always be aware they can and will bite if they feel the need.
 

Kendra

Regular Member
To be honest it could be months before he can trust you, that is not unusual. He needs time to adjust and you have to try to be patient with him. A relative took a conure into her home and for the first couple of months she just basically left him alone, talking to him but not looking at him, singing to him and letting him lead, do what he wishes when he is ready, it is just time but you will get there and become great friends. I have heard conures are very funny little birds when they become friends.
 

Michael Reynolds

Regular Member
Conures can be a little nippy but they do grow out of it, there are three stages of bites, the common nip that hurts but dose not piece the skin. the slightly harder bite that allows there top beak to pernitrate, this will not happen often and is normally (there way of play) a case of excitement but causes no long term damage then there is the full attack, I have only herd of one case and personally with all the conures I have had I have never had one attack me
 

michelleshepelevich

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hey-io guys, whats up? :budgie2:
Ranji is doing great and lately he started to be more interested to go out of his cage and walk around. But right now im having a little problem - he is keep growing and his wings and nails as well and its starts to be uncomfortable for him.
Im planing to take him to the vet soon to cut his wings but what about his nail? he is still not trusting me enough to do that.
Any tips? (;
 
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