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Freaking Out

Discussion in 'Food And Diet' started by Yellowchickenparrot, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Roz

    Roz Regular Member

    I don't really like giving supplements since they are synthetic, but sometimes I add Zolcal D (liquid) or Calcivet Powder (powder form of calcium and Vit D3). I sometimes add Guardian Angel which contains prebiotics, vits and minerals. Nutrabal (spelling?) seems to be popular here but I haven't used it.

    @plumsmum Apparently the oxalates in raw spinach (that bind with calcium) might remove some of the spinach's own calcium but spinach is also high in other important nutrients. Since Leslie Moran told me something to that effect, I am not worried about feeding raw spinach. I'm pretty sure she's written something about it in Parrots Mag in the past.
     
  2. Roz

    Roz Regular Member

    Found the article – it’s in Parrots Mag July 2013 – Spinach – an essential food or nutrient antagonist? by Leslie Moran. It’s two pages long so just going to quote the key points:

    … “Several spinach leaves weighing about 10g contain about 97 – 99mg of Calcium and 97mg of oxalic acid.

    With these amounts being fairly equal, I began wondering how calcium binds to the oxalic acid. Edward Garfield Mahin’s book, Quantitate Analysis, provided me with the answer. ‘In biochemical processes one molecule of calcium binds to one molecule of oxalic acid.’ This means that the calcium and oxalic acid bind to each other cancelling each other out – no calcium absorbed, no oxalic acid affecting bodily processes.

    Oxalic acid may reduce some calcium in foods eaten at the same time, but only if there is more oxalic acid than calcium in the spinach. Research has shown that the oxalic acid in spinach will not leach minerals out of the body."

    “So we are not feeding spinach for the calcium content but for the other health giving nutrients it contains.” Spinach is high in antioxidants such as beta carotene and lutein-zeaxanthin, Vit K, potassium and the B vits folate, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine, B6 and choline. It’s also a rich source of Betaine and CoQ10 (helps protect against heart disease). Etc.

    Interestingly in my notes I found a quote from Shauna Roberts of Feeding Feathers about calcium and Greys:

    Grey requiring more Ca is a myth but still believed by many. Greys may have a higher requirement for D3 but then again D3 is something that requires extreme caution so the safest way to offer it is by giving a pellet that contains it (at least 50% pellet diet) or getting a bird outside in the sunlight often, safely of course and also access to shade and water. The myth that Greys require more Ca is because they can show outward signs of being low in Ca more readily than some other species such as having seizures.
     
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  3. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

    I feed fresh fruit and veggies, my chosen seed mix is Deli Nature no. 61 and number 63 mixed together plus Nutrobal usually once a week but the fourth week is NektonS instead of the Nutrobal.
    For me personally it runs like this .... I have the full bloods done on all my 5 house birds which are three different species, I have all 5 of them confirmed by avian vet at the correct levels for their species without alteration needed to what they are now feeding. For me I think that once you have your birdies giving bloods for full analysis at their correct levels on a number of occasions that the diet is thereby set correctly and shouldn't be altered for a new food that comes out on the market etc etc ... why try to mend what isn't broken .... its a risk of breaking it that doesn't need to be taken.
    Kev's Gismo has confirmed correct bloods he feeds fresh fruit and veggies, seed plus pellets not sure if he feeds a supplement. Shirley's Scooby has confirmed correct bloods she feeds fresh fruit and veggies plus see and nutrobal.
    I will not feed pellets as I cannot tell what the quality of the ingredients are or if the nutritional values are or if they are at optimum levels or not. Plus obviously if they are putting the correct levels of things into the pellets ... always a scary thought! The vast majority of pellets are cold pressed except for roudybush which is apparently doing things under heat to kill off any bacteria so not suprised I suppose that they are adding the vast amount of supplements to the pellet.... but looking at the ingredients there seems to be five components in it and the rest is additives of supplement ..... the five items for me .... didn't do it interest wise! I will not feed my birds soy after all the information I read about it over the years ..... however as it's a cheap additive it seems to be in all the pellets. In another thought process for me pellet manufacturers are out to make money so keeping costings down is imperative but it doesn't mean that they are as passionate about / in love with our birdies as we are.
    I think that the myth of calcium is actually a good one to keep ... it reminds us to pay attention to their feeding and make sure that they are getting it, the same with beta carotene and amazons reminds us of the damages of not giving the correct food. We have a hap hazard way f doing our own diets ..... errrrr or junk food eating which is one thing but the vast majority of us may grab a bit of rubbish to quell our tummy rumbles but we pay attention to what our birdies are stuffing their kissers with.
    But as said it's just my own personal thoughts on that one.
     
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  4. plumsmum

    plumsmum Regular Member

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  5. DizzyBlue

    DizzyBlue Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Ooooo nom nom nom!

    I dragged out my "BOOK" tonight yes that would be THE BOOK the read of all reads for me at the moment :) Don't worry everything I end up spamming you can just blame Kev H as he sent me THE BOOK as a pressie. @KEV H you knew this would happen! :risas3:

    THE BOOK is none other than Handbook of Avian Medicine Second edition :aplastao:

    Unfortunately though I have just read the publishers restrictions on copying, printing, distributing information in said book ... and its grim! :( But there is a really interesting thing about african greys and calcium and that they are the most birds in the parrot family to suffer from a lack of it for some reason, in THE BOOK they are on about the calcium to phosphorus ratio usually being incorrect, the D3 being too low, lack of correct lighting to metabolise and lack of the correct amount of phosphorus along with the missing calcium. There are a heap load of scientific recent documents that they are using to back up the info. Now am pondering however if the calcium being seen low in greys is actually to do with them being more popular as pet birds than the rest?!?!?!

    Got an idea thought...... this thread has gone totally away from YellowChickenParrots original questions SORRY :emoji_bouquet: @Yellowchickenparrot
     
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  6. Yellowchickenparrot

    Yellowchickenparrot Regular Member

    Gosh just spent the last 15min reading all this, I like understanding things and it's really nice to read all your views and read the information you have dug up about calcium which is my main worry. Tried porridge today and she just licked it then left it warm or cold or with things in it. She's giving me the run around with feeding her she received won't eat much else other than seed and Orange. I have been cutting up everything under the sun spent ££s on fruit and veg but shes super fussy. I have held off giving in and presenting more seed today and she's not really ventured into all the lovely other stuff I have filled her bowls with. However she has been begging for food and searching for scraps on plates in the kitchen today and as she's young and growing I really don't want to Starve her. Feeling stressed as I'm worried about calcium and vitamin intake
     
  7. KEV H

    KEV H Regular Member

    Crush ur Harrison's into powder boil kettle mix with water into wet paste and put on teaspoon first thing in the morning it will like formula what she was raised on then mix ur seeds in it aswell she will eat seed and taste the Harrison's try that for few days if she takes to it split pellets into small pieces and put in with ur wet seed gradually after few weeks start reducing seed Gota be patient but it will work
     
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  8. Yellowchickenparrot

    Yellowchickenparrot Regular Member

    Ok will try 2mro kev, I am worried about going backwards with feeding tho?
     
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  9. plumsmum

    plumsmum Regular Member

    Most of what I have picked up is that it is hen birds that are at most risk especially if egg laying and this deficiency can be passed over to the chick which can result in deformity. So I suppose you are at the mercy of the breeder if you have a young bird? Comments @DizzyBlue please?

    Sorry for your feeding woes @Yellowchickenparrot please let us know how you get on? I have had my fair share of this with Plum. I like the sound of KevH suggestion, worth a try. If Plum is being particularly stubborn having him sitting on my shoulder with his food dish and picking bits out to eat myself usually helps stir some interest. "What you are eating my food, even though I don't want it?"
     
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  10. Yellowchickenparrot

    Yellowchickenparrot Regular Member

    Well I mushed up some Harrison's pellets in some warm water and she ate it or more drank it lol. I feel kinda happy to know she's getting some vits and calcium in and not just relying on the few bits she nibbles in the day. Thanks kev
     
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  11. TomsMum

    TomsMum Administrator Staff Member Admin

    That’s great...so you can slowly reduce the amount of liquid over time, and increase the size of the broken bits of pellet.
     
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  12. TomsMum

    TomsMum Administrator Staff Member Admin

    If she prefers the softer texture at the moment...have you tried a veggie mash...things like sweet potato, butternut squash, broccoli, carrot....you could make a batch and then freeze it in portions ...I use a cake pop silicon mould.

    Photo in this thread
    https://theparrotclub.co.uk/community/index.php?threads/todays-recipe-is.20048/#post-307845

    Chicko prefers his veg chunky... I open freeze chunks of sweet potato, butternut squash, and mango, than bag up, then I can take out whatever I need and thaw out. Also use the supermarket frozen berries, as more economic than fresh out of season.
     
  13. plumsmum

    plumsmum Regular Member

  14. Yellowchickenparrot

    Yellowchickenparrot Regular Member

    Right I have mashed up Harrisons pellets and she will take that in a goo, I did sweet potato and broccoli in a goo and she took that I'm just really glad she's getting some good stuff in her even though it's a bit backwards feeding her like a baby again. I have put all the stuff I spoon read her today in her bowls but she didn't touch anything. Hopefully I can thicken it up over a few weeks and get her to munch on cooed veg then raw.
     
  15. plumsmum

    plumsmum Regular Member

    Regression weaning is a need for a little extra nurturing support. A little nurturing support from Mum or Dad in the form of food and care, assures her that there is nothing to worry about. This need for nurturing is most easily satisfied by feeding. She will stop in time and it may be driven by her new home and surroundings, or even how she sees you. You are doing good so far :)
     
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  16. Yellowchickenparrot

    Yellowchickenparrot Regular Member

    Thanks for all the help and advice I really want to give her the best start in life with good food a safe home and lots of love. I'm doing ok so far just the food was a bit of a problem but she's taking anything on a spoon now lol and still nibbling out her bowl. She has started doing lots of beak grinding and falls asleep with us on the sofa in the evenings she's also begs for neck scratches, she's so cute
     
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  17. Yellowchickenparrot

    Yellowchickenparrot Regular Member

    Ok more help and ideas needed, got Luna eating mushed up Harrisons she actually pines for me to feed her like a baby but put them in a bowl or offer as a treat and she picks them out and chucks them on the floor or completely ignores them. She's still massively fussy with veg and no matter what way I serve it she ignores it and will just go hungry until seed is offered. Just need some reassurance and ideas to keep me from going mad. Cheers
     
  18. plumsmum

    plumsmum Regular Member

    Have you sprinkled some seeds on the veggies, she has to at least get a taste to get the seeds. Probably being played they are so manipulative but it is difficult to know for sure.

    Have you tried making birdie bread? Birdie omelettes with loads of fine veggies added? Porridge with fruit and veg?
     
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