Chico's Progress

chicoshuman

Regular Member
Hey so I'm sure some of you lovely people will know my past issues with Chico and his aggression. You may also know that I have a new addition to the flock in the form of a blue and gold macaw Rhaegar!

So things between them are fine, they aren't buddies which isn't what I hoped for or expected from them especially Chico if they do buddy up one day great but it's not really an issue if they don't.

I have been intensely working with Chico with his behaviour continuing to build our bond and out trust which is going extremely well. I taught him the "hop" trick and this has even now started to just develop into a recall which for a very nervous flyer (I believe he was clipped as a baby and all his life) I find a massive development due to the amount of trust he must have in my to jump/fly to my hand on command which he's actually incredibly responsive to doing. He has even started to place a foot on my mothers hand when she askes him to step up even though he used to despise her.

However... NOTHING has stopped his biting, even of me, in fact it seems as though it's even increasing as though he's becoming more confident to tell me he doesn't want to do something. I realise the simple answer is "don't make him do something he doesn't want to do" but these things aren't really avoidable without him being locked in his cage all day which he would scream the house down because he was locked away all day in his previous home... Examples of the biting behaviour are having a drink anywhere around him (he will find ways to get to drinks to attack them and obviously being a bird no where is out of reach) moving from my house to my studio is becoming unbearable as it's an outside walk. It's literally 5 steps and I spend around 13 hours a day in my studio so he kind of has to come, he was also fine with his before but has since started to bite in the last month and a half. There are a few others but I'll keep it short and to the worst and most frequent.

I believe a lot of these issues are from his previous homes which it turns out I'm his 4th home in his 4 years of life which really upsets me... I started to feel I'm not experienced enough to train these complex bad behaviours out of him as I have absolutely no success but when it comes to new positive things like tricks I get on fine. How I'm now having to try and deal with the biting is if it's a really bad persistent attack he has to go in his cage and I have to leave him to cool off, I can't just ignore it and leave him to do whatever as I have 2 dogs and a cat as well as people in the house so just walking away and ignoring it isn't an option (he's also rather distructive like all birds and has now destroyed 2 apple keyboards and a PS4 controller) I could never give up on him I've become way too attached and to think of him with someone else not caring properly for him breaks my heart to even think about...

I've begun to consider if there were any expert training "birdy boot camps" out there in the U.K. that's could help me with this as I'm scared he's going to end up getting stuck in his cage because he's becoming unhandlable and my work life is suffering for having to constantly deal with chicos bad behaviour...

Thank you for reading and I know it probably seems like I've been here before but, as I say I'm really not sure what training I could do myself that would help as I seem to be able to grasp all other training well with now multiple birds but he just seems to become possessed with aggression...
 
Hi Chicoshuman maybe Roz or someone will be along shortly to advise you. My Scooby used to bite i say no beeky and he doesn't bite much now i get the odd nip but nothing compared to what i used to get off him , i say in a firm voice no beeky and he seems to understand this and he stops looks and goes on about his business like i say very rare now do i get bitten touch wood .

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Just keep up with the training don't push him always remember greys are stubborn it's on there terms
 
Just keep up with the training don't push him always remember greys are stubborn it's on there terms
Forgot to mention I wouldn't keep cages by eachother the dander off greys is harmful to macaws
 
Forgot to mention I wouldn't keep cages by eachother the dander off greys is harmful to macaws
They are in different rooms for bed time so don't worry :)

Also it's not when training that I get bitten, he's a little angel while we train and he does so well he's so clever... but the attacks are just so awful. I'm lucky I have thick skin literally because anyone else's that has been bitten by him usual ends up with a gushing blood wound, with me it's more of a clamp and then it feels bruised for a few days.
 
Really good to hear of Chico's progress. Love that you have taught him the hop and that he is jumping/flying to your hand when cued.

... I realise the simple answer is "don't make him do something he doesn't want to do" but these things aren't really avoidable without him being locked in his cage all day...

It is not really a case of not making him do something he doesn't want to do, but rather making the reinforcing consequence highly desirable so that he DOES want to do the behaviour. For example you might reinforce a step up with a special treat (kept only for training which makes it more valuable). If the treat is reinforcing enough he will likely repeat the step up more in the future.

If he bites, ask yourself why. What set the stage for it, ie. what happened immediately before the behaviour? And what reinforced it, ie. what happened immediately after the behaviour? Can you change one of those things, or both? Like with the drinks - it might be an idea not to have drinks around him for now because they are setting the stage for an attack. If you don't want him to destroy your computer think about making it more reinforcing for him to do something else in another location. Cue a trick, teach him to forage, highly reinforce ANY other behaviour.

Keep posting about him. You aren't alone in this.
 
i can understand what your going through my grey boy is the same he only steps up when he wants something he dosant attack me we're having a few trust issues it's more me than him so what's different to when training to when you get attacked are you forcing him to step up then he attacks
 
[QUOTE="Roz, post: 406956, member: 2892]

If he bites, ask yourself why. What set the stage for it, ie. what happened immediately before the behaviour? And what reinforced it, ie. what happened immediately after the behaviour? Can you change one of those things, or both? Like with the drinks - it might be an idea not to have drinks around him for now because they are setting the stage for an attack. If you don't want him to destroy your computer think about making it more reinforcing for him to do something else in another location. Cue a trick, teach him to forage, highly reinforce ANY other behaviour.
[/QUOTE]
Not that I want him to destory my keyboards but that wasn't an issue :p the keyboard destruction was just the result of me walking away and ignoring his negative behaviour! Haha was just saying the ignoring and removing myself from his attention isn't possible because stuff gets destroyed! He just LOVES to pop those little keys out the little terror!

A huge issue we have is moving from studio to house which is 5 steps outside of my house, literally takes about 6 seconds for me to get from one to the other. I've tried keeping him distracted for this brief moment he has to put up with maybe 4 times a day so for 24 seconds of his day, I've tried distracting with treats but honestly when he gets angry he is like completely bipolar, once he's been pissed off he won't take any treats or if he does he will most likely snatch them. He's also learnt to anticipate these times either when he has to be popped in his cage or when we have to move from house to studio and will start to attack before hand.

I believe his aggression was born from his previous home. They had kids... 2 incredibly boisterous boys that were running around like crazy when we went to pick him up god knows what he went through there, they also had no care for the lose their only pet when I took him which makes me think that the kids had no respect for a bird whatsoever.

The hardest thing is that he hates being alone, although he doesn't like any affection (although he does give me kisses but only ever does that to me) and we all respect that ( sitting on hand or shoulder is enough for him) although I am favoured I obviously still get bitten and I am the only one that will continue to interact with him physically (letting him out etc) because no one else wants to get bitten... just been getting quite demanding and getting clamped on every day is wearing me thin
 
Hahahaha - ok no ignoring!! :pancarta:

Right now sounds like the journey from the house to the studio and back again isn't reinforcing for him... likewise, being put back into his cage. I don't know how you transport him to the studio... maybe he's not comfortable with something on the short journey, maybe he was perfectly happy doing what he was doing before being interrupted to move. Is there a way to transport him differently? If you aren't using a travel cage, maybe get one and teach him to enter it willingly (always good for vet visits too!). Plus how can you make going back into his big cage more reinforcing? Attention, eg standing talking to him for 30 seconds? Toys?

When I have to put Kobe back into his cage pronto... ie. if the postman rings the bell, I ask him to step up on a hand held perch. I use the perch because the sound of the bell puts Kobe in overdrive and over excitement can very well lead to a bite. Kobe doesn't question the perch as I always use it to take him out of his night cage in the mornings - not that I need to, but as training. Reinforcement for stepping up on the perch is coming out of his nightcage - freedom! When the postman has gone, I immediately go let him out again and make a gentle fuss of him (attention is highly reinforcing for Kobe). Likewise you could teach Chico to step up on a hand held perch - perhaps a perch he's already familiar with in his cage. By the way Kobe is exactly like Chico in that he refuses to take a treat most of the time - he'll snatch and throw it - he'll only take a treat at night when he goes into his nightcage. No matter, I'll use other reinforcers during the day.

Does Chico step up ok at other times? If so, expand on these times. You could try breaking down your journey to the door into small steps and reinforce his relaxed body language. What reinforcers do you use when teaching him tricks? Try using the same reinforcers. If it's attention, praise him, if it's a treat, give him a treat. Ask him to step up, praise/treat, put him straight down again, praise/treat. Ask him to step up again and take one step to the door, praise/treat; put him down, more praise/treat. Next time take two steps, etc. until you reach the door. Watch his body language all the time - you are reinforcing his relaxed body language with each step. If it changes in the slightest then you have gone too far too fast, take a step or two back and proceed in even smaller steps. He's in control of how fast you go - having control is a primary reinforcer. Keep any training sessions very short but frequent. First time you might complete just 1 or 2 steps. Next time you might get to 3. Repeat them until he's fluent. Maybe do this on a day when you don't have to go into the studio.

Yes, dealing with biting is tiring, painful and you can't help feeling hurt emotionally. I used to get bitten almost every day by Kobe which is why I decided to learn about behaviour. Living with parrots isn't easy!
 
I do sympathise with you, I have a CAG, Dusky who tends to hide under chairs, tables and things so he an get a nip at my feet. He also will attack if I try to stop him doing something he does not wish to end, I know how they can get into things they should not be near. I can not offer any solutions, I just keep out of his way as much as possible, sad but ?

I put Dusky's behaviour down not to ill treatment or neglect but he was with a man 18 years before he came to me, his day was chewing wood in his cage and then cuddles for an hour in the evening and that was it, no toys. He will not allow me near him and in 2.5 years has only offered his head once for a tickle, he promptly went and bit the tickle finger. I have tried training but did not work for me, it is the old case of good as gold so long as he is getting his treats. He rarely sees a man but is nearly an angel when my OH is here and will step up nicely for him.

So what have I done? made him a large indoor aviary, he is out around 4 hours per day and I do not feel guilty if he is shut in more. His wrecking of the house has lessened and he has calmed down some, not perfect but easier. We had a made to measure indoor aviary 2 x 2 x 1.5m (approx.) with 3 feeding bowls, total cost £230 so certainly cheaper than many cages.
 
So still not much has changed with Chico, his moments of aggression are just completely surprising... I am obviously still continuing with training etc trying to keep him happy and incentivise things I want him to do... Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.. I really think he could probably do with more cage time however as soon as he knows he's behind bars he gets very very angry about it even when i try make it as entertaining to be in there as possible such as giving him his parcels to unwrap. His attitude is kind of well I'm still p***ed that you've put me in here i guess ill do these while I'm in here but when I'm out I shall get my revenge.

Hius relationship with my mother does seem to be improving however, she is able to do some trick training and recall training with him however is still aggressive in other situations unfortunately...

Hopefully we will have small improvements along the way... I guess in the grand scheme of things we haven't been together that long.

Kendra your set up sounds amazing i wish i had the space to do something like that for him! however i think he would still know he was behind bars still!
 
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