About Ready To Give Up

denzarki

Regular Member
I'm trying so hard with echo. But it's been a downward spiral for the past few weeks and I'm starting to lose my patience. I expected parrot ownership to be a challenge but I expected it to be a challenge with reward and we're not getting reward at the moment. We basically have a £400 noisy attack machine.

Id love to believe it's spring time blues but he's so aggressive I've got to question if he just decided he hates us. I've bought him tons of toys which he doesn't seem to pay any attention to, he's scared of everything we've found, even his top perch when we put it on his cage to hold the doors open. I don't know what conditions he was kept in before us but we're doing the best we can for him now and all we're getting in return is bad behaviour.

So let me explain a few of the behaviors we've had recently.

1/ standing next to his food bowl whining and switching and stretching his feet

I Googled this one, I saw this might be begging for food.. I've changed his food 3 times (went to 3 different shops) and I even picked out the things he doesn't like and he'll still do this alot. I haven't observed him eat today.

2/ screaming then running

If we leave the room he screams, this used to be only if he was out of his cage but now he does it inside. But if we come to him he runs away (gets in his cage)

3/ screaming in general

We can't solve it and it's getting worse. We've tried all sorts of things suggested on here. I also tried waiting for a silence to enter the room then treating the silence. Didn't work

4/ aggressive stances and biting

We've decided that we're going to let him decide when he's ready. So what we do, every now and then we'll go to him, hold our hand out for a scratch or step up and if he lowers his head or lifts his leg we continue but if he ducks or stands tall with his mouth open we leave him alone.

Sometimes he will not even give a warning he just straight up lunges for you. I've been bitten twice today this way, this morning almost drew blood yet 30 minutes later he started regurgitation next to me on the sofa, confusing. If he decides to attack without warning the cage gets closed and covered. We also do the same thing when he yells and runs. We want him to know if you misbehave you'll get time out. I know this might develop a behaviour that when he wants to be covered he'll do the behaviour but really I'm lost for how to deal with it at the moment.

5/ biting on step up

When stepping up echo bites. At first I recognised it as a stability thing and it didn't bother me, he was just using his mouth to balance himself on me. But recently he's been lunge biting on step up, this morning he broke the skin when he did it, I don't think it's stability anymore but I also don't know why he's doing it.

===

With all of the above we've halted any training, any bonding and I think we've both reached our limit. We've even discussed rehoming him.

My view on this is, give him 3 months, let the spring run its course then see if he calms down but I'm honestly struggling with him at the moment. Any and all support is appreciated but please don't tell me off I've tried everything lol

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Please.....stay calm, take a deep breath, remember why you wished to have a parrot in your life.

Parrots are like young children, they are sometimes difficult to work out, they throw tantrums, they don't do what you want, they shout and scream, they rebel.....yet they can be great company, lots of fun, lots of hard work.....etc....etc...etc...

You need to try and maintain a calm and collected self when you're with Echo...otherwise he will pick up on stress and negative energy, and this will make him play up more. He's had quite a lot of changes in his three years already...so maybe we need to slow up on training and his environment a little, perhaps slim down the number of toys he has at the moment, and try to spot something that takes his attention.

I am tagging this to @Roz to ask her to outline some tips for you of how to restart on training, and some hints on how to calm Echo.

Don't give up on him, I'm sure that together with the support of members on the forum here, we can get you and your partner and Echo all getting on well together :besos:
 
I'm sure others will have far better advice than I can give, but from my own, short experience I can only say that trying to make sense of them from our human perspective is pointless. They are basically an alien intelligence that we need to learn to understand. And they are wonderful beings! Please don't give up. Maybe take a step back and a few deep breaths first :)
 
Sorry to hear how stressed out you are with Echo, we all understand as most of us have been through that situation.

As has been said keep calm, as hard as it is and ride it through. I am pretty sure Roz will give some good advice, do try whatever is suggested and persevere with it.

Come on here and yell, shout, scream to us, whatever, we will help all we can.
 
Thanks all. He can be a real softie and goofy at times and we've loved it.

But this past week have been so rough with him were really struggling

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Im really hoping you dont give up. It may not even be echos fault at how hes behaving. Give him many chances and as good parents we all forgive.

I always think its best to go back to basics. I would certainly start again. Set your7self small achievable targets.

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Would another bird like a cockatiel or budgie help him.. We have a spare cage.. Just a question my partner asked. Knowing our luck we would get a grumpy budgie lol

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Well may or may not help to calm him, even if they cant be out at the same time. What about music, does he like it or tv?
Do you sit at his side and chat with him? Some have recommended reading to stressed birds x
Instead of openening his cage top could you hang a toy or swing for him, do you have anything he came with still? X
 
@denzarki I was so upset to read this, Echo sounds so confused he just does not know what to do or what he wants, you sound as if you are really stressed by it all and also confused. I do not know if I could say anything that would help except don't give up on him please, if you did and let him go I think you would spend a long time regretting it. He is just going through a stage and it does sound like his hormones are all over the place, which he has no control, not sure of any treatment for this but maybe a word with an avian vet?. He really does love you so if you can just sit back, take some deep breaths and if he is being 'funny' leave him to it, when he is happy make the most of it, I am sure this will pass.
 
It's most likely his hormones coz as you say he shows his soft side with you so he's not being an aggressive bird or is scared take a step back slow down sounds like your rushing things as for the screaming I'm having a similar problem with my ammie so as its warmer outside I put him outside let him scream all he wants and your not going out to him all the time
 
I've been reading your posts that you have been posting and followed the story between you and Echo. However, I feel a bit of a noob when it come's to dishing out advice as I've only had my two green cheeks for about ten months now. I would honestly say, please give Echo the time he needs. That may sound unbearably cliche but one of my GCC has literally only just started stepping up in the last 2 weeks (he used to lunge and break the skin (still does sometimes) for no reason when stepping up, would have me in tears and I was convinced he hated me, whereas the other has been a sweetie for the last 6 months)). They are such sensitive creatures and really hope you all find that happy medium soon where you can start to build up what will be a blossoming relationship.
 
I love all the advice so far too. :)

Just some initial thoughts...

May I ask how "tame" he was when he first arrived. In your avatar, he is on your shoulder... was this a usual thing?

He's scared of everything... including the toys? If he's scared of any toys be sure to remove them.

If he's scared of something you are doing (eyes widen, feathers slick down, maybe heavy breathing, leans or moves away) then stop. If there is no escape for him he could instead become aggressive (lunge, bite); he will also pair you with the bad/scary experience. This you don't want. The top that opens, does it have to be open? If he's afraid of the perch and you are setting it up, he will pair you with the bad experience. He might feel more secure if he can go back into a cage that has a "roof"... for now. ;)

If he's biting as he steps up then stop offering your hand for now. You want to do everything you can to avoid provoking a lunge or bite. Will he take any treats from you? You could perhaps teach him a hands off acceptable behaviour like targeting the end of a chopstick (or something similar) for treat. This will build confidence and also build back a relationship between you. Plus you would be pairing yourself with a good experience.

Putting him in the cage for Time Out is ok, but it should be done immediately (so that he knows why) with no emotion attached. Time Out should only last 30 seconds to a couple of minutes or else he will forget why he's in his cage. Covering the cage doesn't really teach him anything. And as you say, he may learn to "behave badly" so that he gets put back into his cage.

Much better to just walk away if you are unlucky enough to get bitten. A bad behaviour met with aggression or drama on our behalf only makes the situation 10 times worse.

Bad behaviour cannot be unlearned but we can arrange the environment to lessen the chance of it happening in the first place, and at the same time reinforce any other acceptable behaviours. I would work on him taking treats from you and start pairing yourself with good experiences. If you can teach him to target, that would be a positive start. Even something simpler like showing him a small toy (that he's not afraid of) and a few kind words.

I know you are in this horrible spiral where you can't see a happy ending, but there can be. I've been through the same with Kobe (flying attacks, etc.) - ok it was around the time of hormonal amplification, but a lot of it was to do with me not handling it well. I had to take a deep breath and do everything in my power not to trigger these huffings and puffings and attacks. If Kobe attacks, then I just duck and calmly continue what I was doing or calmly walk out of the room. But much better to try to avoid triggering the attack in the first place. For example, I discovered Kobe attacks if I go near his cage with food bowls or walk by him with food bowls. Simple solution - get him to step up and put him inside his cage before I carry the food bowls. This was just one example of how you can change the environment to avoid setting the stage for a bad behaviour. Instead Kobe gets lots of praise for being a good boy for going into his cage so nicely. Bonus: I get paired with a good experience. It's that time of the year again, and I'm pleased to say, no attacks this year so far.

By the way does Echo eat fresh food too? What foods does he like? :)
 
ok got a silly thought in me head...... is part of your current train of thought because you read us on here blipping away about our feathered friends and think geeze they make it look easy?

I'm 50 been keeping birdies most especially one from the parrot species for nigh on all my years on this planet.... and some days i still get it totally wrong with my flock members when i think oh yeah this and the bird says well actually NO go stick your head in a bucket of water :BangHead:
We're all still living and learning sometimes i think we forget to say on here actually i got rollocked by my birdie for getting it wrong today :tmnt:the odd nip, the odd head butt day before yesterday whilst chatting with Bob i was getting rollocked by tuppence she was doing fly pasts throwing toys at me as she went and they do hurt! And why .... well she wanted my attention and i was chatting with Bob on the phone :nono:

Have you looked at the bites thread on this site? Some of mine are in there when i got it wrong and pushed my luck a little too far thinking i could dodge but still wishing to do what i wanted not reading what they were saying i would get if i pushed my luck...and guess what...they were right!

Parrot owning isn't an exact science its not like having a dog or cat there is a mass amount of intelligence and understanding and as they are so intelligent there is also the danger we can force what we want on them rather than understanding actually its a two way street if they aren't understanding its more likely we're not explaining ourselves clearly enough plus also is what we're asking actually reasonable?

Sometimes i come home from work and i'm yaaaaaaa :aplastao: haven't seen you guys for hours i want snuggles want this that or the other and i get the cold shoulder, but i forget when i come home from a rubbish day at work and think i just want peace and quiet i don't want to do anything and they are :aplastao:yaaaaaaaaa and they get the cold shoulder
How are my feathered friends to understand that i am having a rubbish day one minute and a good one the next? They too must feel i am unpredictable etc etc .. plus the other thing.... more often than not we choose them they don't choose us....some friendships are hard to win but well worth the time and effort put in :)
 
I'm in work and can't directly reply to everything at the moment but thank you for all the advice so far and I'll go through it tonight and reply to anything that's been asked.

The questions I did see though.

Scared of everything including his top perch: echo is scared of any object that comes within a foot of him, he'll duck and open his mouth or move away. Once his perch is in place he gets straight on it but the act of putting it on scares him. This is the same for anything that goes near him, which makes it hard to get pictures of him because he hates our phones too lol this is why I think target training is going to be hard with him because he's scared of anything he can't eat. He even freaked out at our hamster when I walked past the cage with the hamster in my hand although I put that down to a predator/prey thing cos the hamster got spooked and bit me (not doing well with animals at the moment lol)

How tame when we got him : id say he was semi tame, he steps up, he perches on your fingers, leg or shoulder and he preens our hair and ears (?) but he also screams, does what the hell he wants and bites. Also doesn't respond well to training so far

Foods: he was on a sunflower seed rich diet when we got him from a wilko bag. I've been to several shops and can't seem to find anything that doesn't bulk food out sunflower seed, so I've bought tropical fruit bags and mixed those with the pet shop foods for now. If he can't see sunflower seed he complains but I know it's for his own good that I limit it. As for fresh we've give him Apple, grapes, tomato and green pepper and he liked all of it except tomato. We also have a bag of banana chips and a bag of walnuts which are both his favourites, we use the walnuts for training because he takes the banana chips back to his water to mush them up.

Are they supposed to eat the sunflower seed whole btw? Echo spends all his time cracking them open to get the hearts and I know the hearts are sold separately so wondering if the black bit is supposed to be waste or he's just picky

Get another bird: we've played videos of other parrots and parakeets to him and he's extremely interested, he makes happy noises and sounds like he's trying to talk to them when we do it so that's why we think he'd benefit from a friend. Also his main content whistle sounds like a cockatiel so we think maybe he was with them when he was younger

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Yes with seeds they hull them themselves.....and eat the seed and drop the husk....they do this with all seed.....sunflower, safflower, millet, etc...etc.
Good that you have a favourite treat the walnuts...so you can use small,pieces as the treat reward when training and target training.

I wouldn't think it ideal to get another bird at the moment, as you need some focussed time with Echo to get him less scared of the environment and more used to interacting with you....another bird will just increase the pressure I think.

If he likes bird sounds as company...try the Brazilian Birds radio channel from 1fm
I have it on when I get mine up in the Mornings, to replicate a flock type environment. In the wild Amazon's will be vocal with the flock first thing, checking out that everyone is Ok...then they will fly off to start foraging for breakfast.

Here's a link to the 1FM website https://www.1.fm/hello
And I'm pretty sure they do an app for android as will as Apple.
 
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Firstly i agree with not getting another bird just yet. Your just going to complicate the situation and he may just bond to the other bird.

Change his food. I buy the no sunflower no peanut avian specific mix from scarletts. Then you can use sunflowers only as a treat.
Up the smount and type of fresh food you are offering. So fresh food in morning then seed in afternoon. Dont bother so much with tomatoes they can be too acidic.
Offer a bigger range of nuts in moderation just no peanuts.

Go back to complete basics. Grt a clicker and charge the clicker so you click treat click treat. That way he knows something good is coming.
So you want him to step up with the no biting. Approach slowly with raised arm/ hand. Everytime you take a forward and no lunging etc immediate click good boy then treat. If he goes to lunge turn your back for 10 seconds then try again.

Ive literally just woke up lol so ill check in later.
 
I've had Pedro for over a month now & I've found it testing at times, but he's coming round. He had never been touched by hand in his 2 years of life but I'm finding he is lead by his stomach & a walnut is always a winning treat. He wants to bite when i try to get him to step up & he gives a continuous honk honk when showing displeasure, don't give up my friend I'm sure it will come good.
 
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